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welcome back to the hidden truth show

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san francisco politicians have decided

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that

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no schools should be named after george

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washington

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or abraham lincoln in the view of these

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holier-than-thou

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elitists neither washington nor lincoln

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is pure enough

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their faults outweigh their

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accomplishments

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you know little things like founding our

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country or freeing the slaves

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would any person in america have

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possibly predicted something like this

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could happen

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10 years ago perhaps only antifa

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adherence

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what is going on in our country

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how did we get here and where is this

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going

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joshua mitchell is a professor of

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political science at georgetown

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university he's the author of american

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awakening

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identity politics and other afflictions

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of our time

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he explains this is all part of a

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dangerous utopian movement

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which seeks nothing less than the end

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of our history before we get to the

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interviewer reminder please support us

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us so far please join us

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okay now for our interview with joshua

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mitchell

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i think i read that you had some issues

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publishing

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your book american awakening um and i'm

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just curious what those struggles were

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and what the state of catholic education

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is today considering that you're

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at georgetown well let me take the

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latter first

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um georgetown

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has been committed to social justice i

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think it was before it even became a

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popular phrase even as early as the

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1990s

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it started using that language which now

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prevails

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i know that there's a long history or

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century-long tradition

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in the catholic church just writing

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about

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social justice but it's not quite what

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social justice has become

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my own views at georgetown has very much

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lost its way and most

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catholic colleges have lost their way uh

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there's still a few that are holding out

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but uh i had a dear friend patrick

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deneen who you may have heard of who

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wrote a very important book

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called uh why liberalism won or whether

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failed or after liberalism i can't

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remember what it was anyway a few years

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ago he left

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georgetown because he saw the writing on

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the wall and he moved to notre dame

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where he still is but even at notre dame

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he tells me

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it's a coming and the catholic church's

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strength

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has been that it's been able to push

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back against some of the madness of the

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modern age

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but catholic universities in america are

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largely succumbing

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and catholic private schools i will say

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from other experience

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they are they're not what they used to

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be they

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they push the social justice narrative

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what i would suggest you look into or

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something

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called christian academy schools there's

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a whole national network of them that

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will teach your

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and their i don't know if they're

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precisely catholic but they are

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definitely christian

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that will teach your kids a classical

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christian education

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that's the way i would go and there's a

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huge network of them

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now so the yeah the infiltration of

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this thought uh social justice et cetera

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et cetera et cetera

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is just permeated academia right to the

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point where it now has infiltrated

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the catholic universities and what i've

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done a bit on on this show the military

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academies

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which is shocking yeah well uh

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also i would say the army uh of all the

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services the army is the one that's now

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most politically correct and woke

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it's very very troubling uh i don't i

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the terrible thought and i don't know if

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you're recording this or not but

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the terrible thought i have is that the

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only thing that's going to

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straighten the army out is a war uh it's

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a terrible thought to have

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but uh you know democratic armies uh

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tocqueville saw this a long time ago

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democratic armies tend to be corrupted

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and uh and the only thing that

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straightens them out is when they

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actually have to do what they're

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supposed to do

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but even you might remember 10 15 years

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ago you had

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ads for the military be all that you can

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be and

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even then it was that was an attempt to

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suggest that

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well the military's not about war it's

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about uh advancing your position in

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society you can earn a career

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well it's only a step from there to

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where where now

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military is a place where you learn all

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the things that society is supposed to

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be teaching you these days about social

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justice

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and the only thing that will stop that

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is when we have to produce warriors and

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not social justice warriors

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[Music]

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yep that that would not be the ideal way

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out but it certainly seems like

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you know we've come so far so fast i

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mean so much to this what's happening

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behind the scenes it's not just coming

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to the forefront

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but one thing strikes me when we talk

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about military and

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america is just how far we've come since

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9 11 when

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people seemed so unified and and the

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flags

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that were out and now to fly a flag

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is you know almost viewed as a white

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nationalist to be carrying a flag

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at least that's how the left would view

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you to have a like i actually

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intentionally have been

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flying my flag uh just not taking it

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down the last few months

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just as my my very small protest against

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this

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the following and i didn't

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i didn't really say this in the book but

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it's kind of lurking there but i never

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worked it out

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so i'm old enough to remember the

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marxist push

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in the 60s 70s

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and and marxism never really fully took

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hold and

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and i suggest to conservatives that they

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don't call what's happening today

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cultural marxism that was the term that

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was used in the 80s

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and i think conservatives need to

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understand that something else has

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happened what's happened

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let me back up so conserve so marxism

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could never take hold for

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for one simple reason uh and namely that

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the property private property is the

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bedrock of american civilization

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and marxism is an attack on private

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property so

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americans american culture had a kind of

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immunity

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to marxism identity politics is a

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thousand times worse why

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because american culture and europe too

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is is suffused with guilt uh it's

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one of the things that happens when

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you're christian you're always wondering

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you know how am i

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in some ways guilty of sin how do i

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atone what do i do to repent

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this is this is deep in our culture and

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what identity politics has done has

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has tapped that uh if you're if you're a

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serious christian you're always going to

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ask the question about

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guilt and fault and identity politics

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provides

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a an easy and i think deeply destructive

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way of thinking

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through your guilt and your guilt is

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affiliated not

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with what you precisely do but what with

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what your group

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has done and so to come to the flag

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so the deal that identity politics cuts

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with

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a you are guilty b there is no

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christian way of reconciling that

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because

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christianity is is for fools uh

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but here's here's what you can do to

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atone

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and what you can do is you can renounce

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your nation you can renounce your

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monuments you can renounce your past

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because the past is is full of dirt and

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filth

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and and where christianity would give

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you a way to move beyond

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the stain of being human through

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forgiveness and atonement through the

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eucharist

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uh identity politics doesn't you have to

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renounce your history

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and so in america uh race

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the history of race is being played on

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and then in europe what's happening they

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don't have the racial problems but it's

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the history of their nations

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so the nations of europe were involved

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in colonialism they were in world war

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involved in world war one in world war

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ii

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uh the germans were involved in the

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holocaust and the deal that identity

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politics cuts

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with them is look you can

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you can buy back your purity you can

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find atonement

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but the way that you have to do this is

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to renounce your nations

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and become a citizen of the european

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union that's

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that is the game that the left is now

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playing it's much more sophisticated

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than marxism because marxism couldn't

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penetrate america

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whereas identity politics can because

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guilt is at our core

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but isn't it identity politics still a

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means to an end

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and what is their end

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well so i suggest in the book that the

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end is

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is probably power this is not my own

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conclusion this is

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you know writers from plato to

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tocqueville have understood that

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oftentimes the call for justice is a

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pretext

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for for a longing for power but

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but if it's not that or in addition to

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that

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i think the left really does believe

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that we're at a kind of

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end of history moment where we can

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have a final reckoning between the pure

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and the damned

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and that we can build a pure world i've

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said that

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identity politics is first and foremost

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fixated on

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on purity and getting rid of stain and

288
00:09:34,310 --> 00:09:32,000
so i link

289
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:34,320
i link things like climate change and

290
00:09:37,910 --> 00:09:36,000
black lives matter all together and we

291
00:09:41,110 --> 00:09:37,920
have this dim intimation

292
00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:41,120
that they are linked together but what's

293
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:43,040
unifying them is the desperate need for

294
00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:44,320
purity so we talk about

295
00:09:49,670 --> 00:09:47,600
clean green energy and dirty

296
00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:49,680
fossil fuels here in chestertown

297
00:09:51,829 --> 00:09:51,200
maryland where i live there's a small

298
00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:51,839
town of five

299
00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:54,160
thousands in college town there is a

300
00:09:58,790 --> 00:09:56,480
huge black lives matter sign

301
00:10:00,710 --> 00:09:58,800
painted down main street and it is the

302
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,720
town is full of very guilty white

303
00:10:05,030 --> 00:10:02,320
liberals who think

304
00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:05,040
that they buy their purity by painting a

305
00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:06,959
black lives matter sign

306
00:10:10,949 --> 00:10:09,440
uh in their town uh you might remember

307
00:10:12,230 --> 00:10:10,959
that there's a passover ritual in the

308
00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:12,240
old testament and

309
00:10:15,670 --> 00:10:14,800
you're supposed to uh paint the blood of

310
00:10:17,990 --> 00:10:15,680
an innocent

311
00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:18,000
lamb on your door and death will pass

312
00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:18,880
you over

313
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:20,800
my suggestion in the book is that

314
00:10:25,350 --> 00:10:22,720
especially white men have to

315
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:25,360
daily have a kind of passover ritual

316
00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:26,240
they have to

317
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,760
committed to all these

318
00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:32,399
social justice causes so that social

319
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:32,800
death

320
00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:35,600
meaning cancellation will pass them by

321
00:10:39,030 --> 00:10:36,560
and this is woke

322
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:39,040
capitalism so we're in the midst as i

323
00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:40,720
say of a great

324
00:10:43,990 --> 00:10:42,959
a religious awakening without god and

325
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:44,000
without forgiveness and

326
00:10:47,910 --> 00:10:46,640
by religious awakening i simply mean a

327
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:47,920
desperate longing

328
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:52,079
off your sin

329
00:10:55,829 --> 00:10:54,880
and become one of the saved except this

330
00:10:57,829 --> 00:10:55,839
one doesn't have god and

331
00:10:59,670 --> 00:10:57,839
it doesn't have forgiveness would you

332
00:11:01,829 --> 00:10:59,680
describe it as utopianism

333
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:01,839
and is that what it shares in common

334
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:03,120
with marxism which is

335
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:05,839
also kind of a form of utopianism yes so

336
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:06,800
so

337
00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,600
pretended that it had a better version

338
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,920
of the christian end of history and the

339
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:14,800
marxist

340
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:18,240
what made marxism so powerful was that

341
00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:19,760
people could see the suffering around

342
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:21,760
them and and they said well well

343
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,720
with just one final push let's say the

344
00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:25,680
revolution

345
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:27,360
we can finally get to the promised land

346
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,360
where alienation is over so

347
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:32,160
both identity politics and marxism share

348
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:32,640
this

349
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:35,839
cusp

350
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:38,320
of the end of history that's true but as

351
00:11:40,949 --> 00:11:39,040
i said

352
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:40,959
marxism couldn't take hold in america

353
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:43,120
because because the whole thing was

354
00:11:46,949 --> 00:11:44,720
predicated on overcoming private

355
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:46,959
property and americans wouldn't go there

356
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:49,680
but uh americans are going there with

357
00:11:53,030 --> 00:11:50,800
droves it's not even

358
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:53,040
it's not even active it's it's not the

359
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:54,480
left is pushing this it's americans are

360
00:11:58,949 --> 00:11:56,720
naturally deceptible susceptible

361
00:12:01,269 --> 00:11:58,959
to the idea that if we can just do this

362
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,279
one thing we can get rid of our guilt

363
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:03,040
and identity politics is playing on this

364
00:12:06,310 --> 00:12:04,800
in that sense it's an end of history

365
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,320
scheme i guess utopian

366
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,920
but it's an end of history scheme where

367
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:09,600
the lion will lay down the lamb you

368
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:10,000
might remember

369
00:12:14,629 --> 00:12:13,040
the famous passage from isaiah you know

370
00:12:16,310 --> 00:12:14,639
right now the lion does not lay down

371
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:16,320
with the lamb right now we treat each

372
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:17,200
other

373
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:20,720
the end of history

374
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,959
the lion will lay down with the lamb and

375
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:25,040
the innocent ones will prevail

376
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,320
and that's where we are now in our

377
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:28,480
politics the only ones who have a right

378
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,519
to speak are the innocent victims you

379
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,120
know basically white men

380
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,959
are being purged and i don't mean

381
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,480
necessarily actively but

382
00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:39,279
there's a palpable sense that there's

383
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:41,120
some people that have a right to speak

384
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,040
by virtue of their identity category

385
00:12:46,389 --> 00:12:44,800
you can't do american politics you can't

386
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:46,399
do any kind of politics

387
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,560
with that and my argument is we really

388
00:12:52,710 --> 00:12:50,399
we have two choices here we can

389
00:12:53,910 --> 00:12:52,720
we can try to hold on to what i call the

390
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,920
liberal politics

391
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:55,839
of competence which is we've got

392
00:12:58,310 --> 00:12:57,279
problems to solve let's build the world

393
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:58,320
together

394
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,720
uh it's it's madison it's politics of

395
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:02,240
interest and yeah we need our churches

396
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:03,920
and all that to shape character but

397
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:06,320
the politics is not about the highest of

398
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,200
things

399
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:09,440
but what's happened is identity politics

400
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,720
has come along and says we're not

401
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:12,320
concerned about confidence

402
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:13,600
we're concerned about innocence

403
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:15,279
categories and so the bible

404
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:16,959
administration is very proud

405
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,880
to identify this or that identity

406
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:20,240
category uh

407
00:13:23,509 --> 00:13:22,320
is as being important and so they're

408
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:23,519
going to hire people in this or that

409
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:24,480
identity category

410
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,680
i don't care what their identity

411
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,519
category is i want to know if they're

412
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:29,120
competent that's the only thing i really

413
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:30,480
care about here

414
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:32,399
so so but that's what the left is

415
00:13:35,350 --> 00:13:33,519
concerned with is

416
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,360
is that what identity category are you

417
00:13:38,470 --> 00:13:36,959
do you have all sorts of innocent

418
00:13:40,790 --> 00:13:38,480
victims in your administration

419
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:40,800
and that's that's the symbol of success

420
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,240
not what you've accomplished

421
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:43,920
it's do you have the right identity

422
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,560
categories and when you say

423
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:48,399
the end of history what do you mean by

424
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:50,000
that

425
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,160
uh well the christian end of history is

426
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,079
that suffering is over

427
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,320
and uh you know saint augustine who's

428
00:14:00,230 --> 00:13:57,839
really my favorite

429
00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:00,240
says that the the preface to the

430
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:02,240
beginning of the city of god

431
00:14:05,990 --> 00:14:04,240
he says we wait now in steadfast

432
00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:06,000
patience until justice returns in

433
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:07,040
judgment

434
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,320
and that what that insight tells us

435
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,800
is that in the world of time you're

436
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:14,480
never going to quite get justice right

437
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,519
there's going to be

438
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:17,279
all sorts of suffering you're going to

439
00:14:19,110 --> 00:14:18,800
cause it you're going to be a victim of

440
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:19,120
it

441
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:22,320
yes you want to have your laws

442
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:24,560
work to the benefit of all but it's

443
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,920
never going to quite be right because

444
00:14:29,189 --> 00:14:27,279
the world of time

445
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:29,199
is impure but there'll be a final

446
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,440
reckoning he says there in the preface

447
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:33,360
uh where the line will lay down with the

448
00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:35,199
lamb and uh

449
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:37,120
and everything will be right and that is

450
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:38,800
the deepest longing

451
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:40,720
within christianity and that's that's a

452
00:14:45,509 --> 00:14:43,440
healthy longing make no mistake about it

453
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:45,519
but but the problem with both marxism

454
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:46,800
and identity politics

455
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:50,000
is that they think they propose that we

456
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:51,440
can achieve it

457
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:53,600
and for augustine and the 20th century

458
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:55,199
for reinhold niebuhr who's a

459
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:56,800
i think one of the more prominent

460
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:59,199
theologians of 20th century

461
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,639
what they said was this is the great

462
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,360
error man can't achieve this

463
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:06,240
god will do it man's job is to live as

464
00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:07,199
as well as we can

465
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:09,760
in this this semi-broken world this is

466
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,720
why by the way

467
00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,959
in american politics you set up checks

468
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:15,040
and balances and rule of law things like

469
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,519
this

470
00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:18,000
to stop the pride and sin of human

471
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,079
beings from overwhelming us all

472
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,760
but there's a recognition the solid

473
00:15:25,269 --> 00:15:23,519
christian recognition is

474
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,279
is we live in a world that's not quite

475
00:15:28,949 --> 00:15:27,199
just and we long for more

476
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,959
and that's a beautiful recognition that

477
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,199
means we have a moral burden

478
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:34,320
in everything that we do we have to both

479
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,440
recognize the limits and gently move

480
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:39,120
beyond knowing that ultimately

481
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,880
beyond those limits knowing ultimately

482
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,880
that god's the one who's in charge

483
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:44,880
so we have to live in hope and faith and

484
00:15:47,910 --> 00:15:46,000
that's what was

485
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:47,920
masterful about our founders and what

486
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:49,440
they recognize as far as

487
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,920
human nature yes they understood its

488
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:53,440
limits

489
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:57,120
but americans today it seems to me are

490
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,240
not being taught

491
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:00,560
that founding anymore and without that

492
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,600
mooring

493
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:04,079
you're easily susceptible to utopian

494
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:05,360
concepts

495
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:08,079
yeah i think that's right uh but but

496
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,040
it's not only

497
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:11,360
i think so i've written a piece didn't

498
00:16:13,829 --> 00:16:12,560
get much play but

499
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,839
i think the biggest problem is the

500
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:16,320
churches i don't think you can teach

501
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,199
i think the the ideas of the founding

502
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,880
that man is broken

503
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,079
we have to have limited government

504
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:24,320
because of that that ultimately rests on

505
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:25,440
a theological

506
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:28,160
understanding the one that i just named

507
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,880
namely

508
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,959
you know after the fall something

509
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:32,560
happened and protestants and catholics

510
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:34,079
are going to disagree about how bad it

511
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:35,440
was but they're both going to say that

512
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:36,720
something happened

513
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,320
and they're both going to say that in

514
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,639
the end this will all be worked out

515
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:42,959
but we have to live within the limits

516
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:43,839
that we have

517
00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:46,800
and but also live within with an

518
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:49,839
understanding of what we're called to do

519
00:16:52,949 --> 00:16:50,240
uh

520
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:52,959
and and so that tension is i think

521
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:55,199
understood by the founders that

522
00:16:58,310 --> 00:16:56,639
you know there's a natural greatness in

523
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,320
man but on the other hand there's also a

524
00:17:03,030 --> 00:16:59,920
darkness here

525
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,040
and we have to recognize both of them

526
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,720
and build a world that recognize both of

527
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:06,400
them if you don't have that theological

528
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:08,079
insight i'll be bold if you don't have

529
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:09,679
that theological insight

530
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:11,039
i don't think the founders can make

531
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:12,959
sense to you well let me challenge that

532
00:17:19,029 --> 00:17:13,679
for

533
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:19,039
um well i don't know if evolution's the

534
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:20,240
right term for it but anyway

535
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:23,520
i just say people are inherently

536
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:27,120
self-interested inherently in that sense

537
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,200
greedy you know that that's i don't

538
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:31,120
think i need a theological explanation

539
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,400
for that it just makes perfect sense

540
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:34,240
that people are going to for first look

541
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,840
out for themselves

542
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:38,240
so that's their first inclination and

543
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:39,440
then they can

544
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:41,600
learn that in order to live in a society

545
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,200
we also need to be good

546
00:17:46,470 --> 00:17:45,280
to each other because otherwise society

547
00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:46,480
doesn't work so they ultimately

548
00:17:49,750 --> 00:17:47,200
recognize

549
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:49,760
that well yes all i care about is myself

550
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,400
first

551
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:52,000
but then i also recognize that hey if

552
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:53,200
i'm not good to the other guy he's not

553
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,480
going to be good to me back so you

554
00:17:58,630 --> 00:17:56,400
ultimately learn the golden rule

555
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:58,640
and you live in that way and you form a

556
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,679
society

557
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:01,360
and that can all be explained through

558
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,880
natural evolution of ban

559
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,880
why does that need a theological

560
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:06,160
explanation

561
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:08,160
well because uh you know if you look at

562
00:18:11,830 --> 00:18:09,280
really the first one

563
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:11,840
in early modern political thought who

564
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:12,559
who

565
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:16,240
pushes back against christian theology

566
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,160
this idea that human beings are

567
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:20,799
are prideful let's use that word

568
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:23,039
prideful and self self-referential

569
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:26,080
the first one to do that is rousseau who

570
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,000
talks about the natural goodness of man

571
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,640
and he knows that what he has to attack

572
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,400
is christianity

573
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:35,120
and and i think you know every idea that

574
00:18:39,590 --> 00:18:36,480
human beings are naturally good

575
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:39,600
attacks that this christian idea that

576
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:41,360
human beings are broken so

577
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:43,120
i don't use the word selfish i think we

578
00:18:45,909 --> 00:18:44,400
have to understand these things in a

579
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:45,919
theological way

580
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,440
and i think that's really the great

581
00:18:50,710 --> 00:18:49,039
question

582
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,720
is there is there a story that we can

583
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:53,120
tell that allows us to understand who we

584
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:53,679
are

585
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:56,559
and and the left story generally is well

586
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,160
human beings are naturally good and then

587
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:59,600
they're those bad capitalists or those

588
00:19:02,549 --> 00:19:00,559
bad white men

589
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,559
or whatever it is there's there's some

590
00:19:08,150 --> 00:19:05,360
some reason why

591
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:08,160
some obstacle to our natural goodness

592
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,600
and i think the founders and i think

593
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,760
christianity starts with a rather

594
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:13,039
different supposition

595
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:15,360
which is let's find the compromise

596
00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:16,640
language between what you're using and

597
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,480
what i'm using human beings are prideful

598
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:20,000
and self-referential you can call that

599
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:20,960
self-interested

600
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,559
that's fine we can we're on the same

601
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,240
page on that and and

602
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,640
this is madison on the basis of that we

603
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:28,240
have to figure out how we're going to

604
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:29,360
build the world together

605
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,240
and i think the the founders got that

606
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,320
really really well

607
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:36,240
uh that's why they they come up with

608
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:37,679
checks and balances but the other piece

609
00:19:41,510 --> 00:19:38,720
of this

610
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:41,520
uh to to kind of modify the human

611
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,960
selfishness part

612
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:44,400
this is now i'm moving in the direction

613
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:46,240
of alexis to tocqueville you know they

614
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:48,320
had limited government too

615
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:52,320
and what that meant was that uh

616
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:55,440
they had some faith that

617
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:57,520
that human beings in their mediating

618
00:20:02,630 --> 00:19:59,600
institutions in their families in their

619
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:02,640
churches and their local associations

620
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:05,440
were capable of taking care of a lot of

621
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,799
their business

622
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,559
and that's why you didn't have very

623
00:20:12,630 --> 00:20:10,799
strong government so it's not just that

624
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:12,640
we're selfish it's that we're able to

625
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:14,480
build a world together

626
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:17,200
uh in our in our local communities and

627
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:18,559
that's why you have limited government

628
00:20:22,630 --> 00:20:20,320
as well well that insight's been lost

629
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:22,640
too i think so we have a number of big

630
00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:23,760
problems in our country

631
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:24,799
but i think ultimately we're in the

632
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,559
midst of a theological crisis that's why

633
00:20:30,310 --> 00:20:28,240
i call the book american awakening

634
00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:30,320
and of course it's to play on the

635
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:31,760
original understanding

636
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:33,520
because we had two great american

637
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:34,880
awakenings the

638
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:38,400
1760s and the 1820s

639
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:40,559
just before tocqueville arrived and

640
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:41,600
these were moments that

641
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,880
transformed america and what we have now

642
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:46,400
is another moment that's transforming

643
00:20:49,909 --> 00:20:48,000
america except that this one which

644
00:20:51,029 --> 00:20:49,919
is like the first two concerned with

645
00:20:52,789 --> 00:20:51,039
purity and stain

646
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:52,799
is one that is occurring without god and

647
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:54,080
without forgiveness

648
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:57,200
it's a it's a non-theological religious

649
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,760
movement

650
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,679
this is why i say identity politics is a

651
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,440
profound perversion

652
00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:03,919
of christianity and in a way you know to

653
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,440
come back to your earlier point just as

654
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,120
marxism was

655
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:09,280
talk about tocqueville a little bit and

656
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,880
what he had to say

657
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,960
uh when he was here you're saying that

658
00:21:18,870 --> 00:21:15,120
was in the 1820s was tocco

659
00:21:20,390 --> 00:21:18,880
uh late 1823 the book uh maybe was 1831.

660
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:20,400
the book comes out the first vine comes

661
00:21:25,110 --> 00:21:23,039
out in 1835 and the second in 1840.

662
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,120
and i know he had a lot of very profound

663
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,039
observations about america

664
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:29,200
maybe just share those with us briefly

665
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:31,039
and how those connect

666
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:33,600
to things that he was pointing out that

667
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:35,440
could be a risk to america

668
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,960
and what we're facing today so uh

669
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,799
uh there's so much there but let me just

670
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:42,159
give you what i take to be for the

671
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,280
moment anyway the most important part

672
00:21:48,549 --> 00:21:47,679
near the end of the book uh which by the

673
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:48,559
way becomes

674
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:50,480
more and more pessimistic as time goes

675
00:21:54,870 --> 00:21:52,880
on the first part is very celebratory

676
00:21:56,310 --> 00:21:54,880
by the end the second volume written

677
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:56,320
five years after the first

678
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:59,200
he's deeply pessimistic about the future

679
00:22:03,669 --> 00:22:00,960
here and he says in one place

680
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:03,679
i i fear i'm gonna i'll get this roughly

681
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,240
right

682
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:06,240
paraphrase it um i fear that in the

683
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:07,360
future

684
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,039
american citizens will think of

685
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,520
themselves as both greater than kings

686
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,600
and less than men

687
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,440
that's a profound statement what he was

688
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:17,280
saying was that

689
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,520
uh the the success of the americans

690
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,360
was a consequence of their ability to

691
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:25,360
build a world together in face-to-face

692
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:27,120
associations all the mediating

693
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:28,880
institutions that people talk about

694
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,880
all this comes out of tocqueville but

695
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,480
what he worried about

696
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,880
was that we would begin to find those

697
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:36,480
face-to-face associations more and more

698
00:22:40,549 --> 00:22:38,159
difficult dealing with our neighbors

699
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:40,559
is really hard and he thought what would

700
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:41,280
happen was

701
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:44,640
was it over time all these intermediate

702
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:47,760
associations our families our churches

703
00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:50,799
our civic associations would would erode

704
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,720
and we would become lonely and isolated

705
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,640
in the one visible power we would have

706
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:57,039
in front of us would be the state and he

707
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:58,799
said under those circumstances here's

708
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,080
what's going to happen and this is

709
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,480
exactly where we are today and i this is

710
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:04,080
the second part of the book american

711
00:23:09,590 --> 00:23:07,520
awakening i talk about bipolarity

712
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:09,600
what happens he he says or what's going

713
00:23:13,190 --> 00:23:11,200
to happen is this

714
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:13,200
people are going to withdraw into their

715
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,400
own isolated worlds

716
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:16,320
and without other people to kind of

717
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:18,880
check them they're going to become

718
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:21,600
uh sovereign selves they're gonna

719
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:22,960
they're gonna think of themselves as the

720
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:24,240
most important thing in the world this

721
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,640
by the way is selfie man

722
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,559
around the world today you've got

723
00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:30,320
hundreds of millions of pictures

724
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:32,720
selfies taken every day with the world

725
00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:33,679
as the backdrop

726
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,360
to you so we become utterly sovereign

727
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:38,960
selves this is the greater than king's

728
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:40,000
part

729
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:41,840
but it wasn't just greater than kings

730
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:43,440
you know and but and some will become

731
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:44,640
greater than kings and some will become

732
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,919
less event and he said both of these

733
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:46,880
things were going to happen at the same

734
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,600
time

735
00:23:51,110 --> 00:23:49,840
and the less than men part was was a

736
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:51,120
consequence of this

737
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:53,520
by virtue of disconnecting from other

738
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:54,640
people

739
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,279
we would in addition to feeling like

740
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,960
we're sovereign selves and don't have to

741
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:59,840
answer anybody

742
00:24:04,149 --> 00:24:02,000
we would sense ourselves to be utterly

743
00:24:06,470 --> 00:24:04,159
weak and impotent

744
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:06,480
and we would oscillate back and forth

745
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,760
between feeling

746
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:10,240
like we're the king of the world and we

747
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:10,880
we are

748
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:13,120
nobody and we can do nothing and let me

749
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:14,559
ask you what what was it

750
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:17,520
what was he observing that caused him to

751
00:24:20,870 --> 00:24:18,080
be concerned

752
00:24:23,029 --> 00:24:20,880
about this the erosion of all the

753
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:23,039
mediating institutions that we need to

754
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,320
build the world together

755
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,559
the slow erosion of the family he looked

756
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:28,640
ahead he saw how the family was going to

757
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:29,600
be destroyed

758
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,640
why because family requires for him he's

759
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,480
a very conventional guy

760
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:36,799
a husband and a wife and they have

761
00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:37,600
they're they're both

762
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:40,000
they're morally and intellectually equal

763
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,919
but they have separate spheres because

764
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:42,960
for tocqueville

765
00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:45,360
generation the family is really really

766
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,240
important

767
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:48,159
and it's really difficult for a woman to

768
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:49,279
both be inward-looking and

769
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,159
outward-looking

770
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,240
and so he thought a woman's primary role

771
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:53,919
in notwithstanding her moral and

772
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:55,440
intellectual equality

773
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,760
was as generation or part of the you

774
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:59,520
know carrying on the family

775
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:01,360
so he saw that that was going to

776
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:03,360
disappear that women more and more were

777
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:04,799
going to see themselves as sovereign

778
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:05,600
selves

779
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:08,720
being part of the long chain of

780
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:11,120
generation

781
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,159
that i mean the great catastrophe

782
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:16,640
in a way is that now we all think we own

783
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:18,000
ourselves that everything we do

784
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:21,039
is our is our own choice and what

785
00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,480
tocqueville saw and this is a deeply

786
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:23,919
conservative insight

787
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,799
is that we're not our own we we

788
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,000
participate in something

789
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:30,000
that's much bigger than us we're

790
00:25:33,269 --> 00:25:31,120
carriers

791
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,279
we receive this beautiful gift called

792
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:35,120
our inheritance our tradition

793
00:25:39,269 --> 00:25:37,840
and we we work with it we modify it a

794
00:25:39,909 --> 00:25:39,279
little bit and we hand it on to our

795
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:39,919
children

796
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,640
we're not our own but what happens when

797
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,799
you break all the links between people's

798
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:47,120
but what comes into the imagination and

799
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:48,640
he uses this phrase again again he

800
00:25:51,510 --> 00:25:50,240
doesn't say it's true or false he says

801
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:51,520
what naturally comes into the

802
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:54,000
imagination is that people think of

803
00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:55,679
themselves as completely sovereign and

804
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:56,720
disconnected

805
00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:58,880
and so instead of thinking in terms of

806
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,880
the long train of generations

807
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,400
we come to think of ourselves in terms

808
00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:04,480
of the instantaneous now

809
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:06,240
i tell my students at georgetown and

810
00:26:10,149 --> 00:26:08,320
other places i say

811
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:10,159
so if you're if you're the kind of soul

812
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,919
that tocqueville thinks we ought to be

813
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,840
when you go out on a on a friday night

814
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,120
or a thursday night

815
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,279
and do all the crazy things that you do

816
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:18,799
you should be asking yourself what would

817
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:20,159
my great-grandchildren and what

818
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:22,559
my great-grandparents say about this but

819
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:23,679
we don't act that way

820
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,840
in the democratic age we act in terms of

821
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:27,120
the instantaneous moment

822
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:28,559
so the family is going to get broken

823
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,080
down the church is going to be broken he

824
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:31,840
could see in the 1830s

825
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,559
even though you had all this this rich

826
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:35,679
mediational life

827
00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,600
in america he could see where this was

828
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:39,600
going he's the great prophet of the 21st

829
00:26:41,909 --> 00:26:40,320
century

830
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,919
well we certainly the person in america

831
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:43,760
should see this to read the book

832
00:26:47,110 --> 00:26:45,600
yeah yeah and i think that's a very good

833
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,120
advice i'm

834
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:49,679
for sure we see significant breakdown of

835
00:26:52,549 --> 00:26:51,520
faith in family that that should be

836
00:26:55,510 --> 00:26:52,559
obvious

837
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,520
to everyone now what about the fact that

838
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:56,880
we are 200

839
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:00,480
years from tocqueville's writing so

840
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:04,480
uh was he making this

841
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:07,760
prediction uh would you say that this

842
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,520
took a lot longer to come to fruition

843
00:27:14,070 --> 00:27:11,440
than he had thought

844
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:14,080
um he i mean he doesn't give a a time

845
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,880
frame he

846
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:16,559
so the end of the author's introduction

847
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:18,240
he says while the parties are busy

848
00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:19,600
themselves with tomorrow

849
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:22,000
i have tried to see the whole the future

850
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,039
meaning

851
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:25,039
he saw that a revolution had taken place

852
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:27,360
that aristocracy the feudal order was

853
00:27:30,070 --> 00:27:28,159
over

854
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,080
and something new had come onto the

855
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,240
scene which he called the democratic age

856
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,480
and he says i'm trying to see with the

857
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,159
inner logic of this thing called

858
00:27:38,389 --> 00:27:38,000
democracy and where it goes and where it

859
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:38,399
goes

860
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,880
ultimately and here's my phrase to a it

861
00:27:43,830 --> 00:27:42,720
goes to a kinder and gentler tyranny at

862
00:27:45,909 --> 00:27:43,840
the end of history

863
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,919
where everybody's isolated and alone

864
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,880
where here i'll

865
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:48,880
fill in all the blanks where the state

866
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,720
provides us with netflix

867
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,320
uh the state insists on social

868
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:53,840
distancing so this sounds really

869
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:54,640
familiar

870
00:27:58,710 --> 00:27:57,279
uh because as tokyo says in one place

871
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,720
the tyrant will forgive

872
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,640
citizens for not loving him provided

873
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:02,159
they do not love each other

874
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:04,240
the best guarantee of tyranny is to

875
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:05,840
break the connections between human

876
00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:06,640
beings

877
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,320
gather together to oppose tyranny

878
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,080
so he could see all of this happening in

879
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,159
1835 1840

880
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:16,080
but he he didn't think it was inevitable

881
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,000
he thought in point of fact what we had

882
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:19,679
to do is we had to fight this every step

883
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,399
of the way

884
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:22,000
and instead of looking up to the state

885
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:24,000
we had to look outward to our neighbors

886
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:26,000
instead of depending upon the state for

887
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:27,440
cradle to grave

888
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:29,279
care we should make sure we have

889
00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:30,720
multi-generational families

890
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:32,399
which i would hope we begin to see is

891
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:34,080
really important again

892
00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:37,360
because you a a father and a a mother a

893
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:38,000
husband

894
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:40,720
that you cannot do this alone you you

895
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:41,919
have to have

896
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,000
family nearby here's my advice to you as

897
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,320
you're about to have a child

898
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,480
you you really have to have people

899
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,240
nearby you can't do it alone

900
00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:52,480
unless you're going to hire people you

901
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,880
know of maybe dubious citizenship status

902
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:57,039
to take care of your children for you

903
00:29:01,909 --> 00:29:00,559
so where are we today how how dire

904
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,919
is it i mean i like to say that the

905
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,919
pendulum always swings back and forth

906
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:05,679
and sometimes the further it swings one

907
00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:06,320
way

908
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,480
it swings even further back the other

909
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:10,720
way are we still in a position where

910
00:29:14,389 --> 00:29:12,240
this is a pendulum swinging back and

911
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:14,399
forth or are we beyond that point

912
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:16,000
that's a great question i wrestle with

913
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:17,520
this daily so

914
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:19,679
i'll give you i'll talk about this in

915
00:29:24,389 --> 00:29:20,960
two distinct

916
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:24,399
so i think

917
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:27,520
uh the the lockdown uh

918
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,520
has has made people feel so

919
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:31,520
extraordinarily numb

920
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:34,399
and there is a hunger for actual

921
00:29:37,590 --> 00:29:35,200
palpable

922
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:37,600
human contact so i teach classes now

923
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,240
over zoom

924
00:29:41,510 --> 00:29:40,799
my kids are so depressed i can see it in

925
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:41,520
their faces

926
00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:43,760
i can last semester i literally saw them

927
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:45,600
gain weight

928
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:47,760
on their cameras they they're doing

929
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:48,720
nothing

930
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,480
they're numb they're depressed and so

931
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:52,320
there's a palpable longing

932
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,520
for human contact which i hope um will

933
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,480
will make people think maybe i can't

934
00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:00,960
live through netflix and through zoom

935
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,320
maybe i need to start paying more

936
00:30:06,389 --> 00:30:04,399
attention to my neighbor

937
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:06,399
i'm living in a very strange moment

938
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,760
right now in that

939
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:10,640
yes i'm teaching remotely but i'm having

940
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:11,840
all sorts of work done

941
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:14,320
uh on a very old house here that we're

942
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:15,360
restoring

943
00:30:18,470 --> 00:30:16,559
and every day i've got these

944
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:18,480
construction workers and

945
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:20,320
and it's wonderful we have real life

946
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:21,679
conversations

947
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:24,159
and and we joke and then i step into my

948
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:25,120
zoom world

949
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,720
and there's a complete difference

950
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:28,480
between these two things and people need

951
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:30,159
the former not the ladder so

952
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,760
i'm hoping there'll be a little bit of

953
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,600
pendulum swing people realize

954
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:35,600
we can't live this way we literally we

955
00:30:38,630 --> 00:30:36,640
can have

956
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:38,640
zoom and the internet as a supplement to

957
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:41,039
life but not a substitute for life

958
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,640
that's the first thing then the second

959
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:44,799
thing is on the matter of the pendulum

960
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,279
swim

961
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,000
swing in religion you know yes i'm very

962
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:50,159
troubled by identity politics

963
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:53,600
but but strangely i'm also very hopeful

964
00:30:57,190 --> 00:30:54,720
by it

965
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:57,200
about it because at least it's still

966
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:58,240
using

967
00:31:02,389 --> 00:30:59,600
the christian categories of

968
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:02,399
transgression and innocence

969
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:04,080
that's a good sign these are not secular

970
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,679
categories these are profoundly

971
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,120
religious categories

972
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:08,880
and that's why i said earlier i think

973
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:10,399
the real challenge here

974
00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:11,760
is in the churches and the churches are

975
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,360
completely failing because they're

976
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:15,039
buying into the social justice

977
00:31:19,190 --> 00:31:17,760
nonsense too coming all the way from

978
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:19,200
from the top from the pope is that

979
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:20,320
correct

980
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,200
uh yes uh now i'm i'm anglican so i

981
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,960
can't get into your fights

982
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,039
but but yes i mean from my vantage point

983
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:29,120
it really looks like the pope is

984
00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:31,440
is kind of pushing it in this direction

985
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:32,240
but

986
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:34,000
i argue that it's the mainline churches

987
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:35,519
and the protestant churches that really

988
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:36,320
began this

989
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:38,480
this mess in terms of identity politics

990
00:31:43,029 --> 00:31:40,720
is really coming out of protestantism

991
00:31:43,909 --> 00:31:43,039
i think but but catholics have a version

992
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:43,919
of this

993
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:46,080
uh so but it's a really bad products and

994
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:46,960
screw-up

995
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,320
and if you're catholic you might say

996
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:50,320
well of course because protestantism is

997
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,200
a screw-up you can

998
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:53,360
you can go that route but but my point

999
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:54,480
is that the churches

1000
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:57,919
all of them have completely fallen down

1001
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:01,919
in understanding that that man is broken

1002
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:05,760
and what christianity does is it offers

1003
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:08,080
the divine scapegoat who takes upon

1004
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,600
himself the sins of the world this is

1005
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:10,799
the most profound

1006
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:13,600
insight because what this means and i

1007
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:15,120
talked about this in the preface to the

1008
00:32:18,389 --> 00:32:15,840
book

1009
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,399
what this means is that you cannot as

1010
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,080
the pagans did

1011
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,480
look at another group and say i'm going

1012
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,799
to scapegoat and destroy them

1013
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,480
and that will solve my problems that

1014
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:28,080
will take away my stain

1015
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:29,840
the christian said no the problem of

1016
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:31,840
stain is original to man

1017
00:32:36,149 --> 00:32:34,320
um and as a consequence there's only

1018
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:36,159
there has to be a divine resolution

1019
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,640
there's

1020
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,039
it's so deep that you can't solve it by

1021
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:40,960
scapegoating another human being

1022
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:43,360
this was all by the way worked out in by

1023
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:45,039
saint athanasius

1024
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:47,840
um in the book the incarnation which was

1025
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:49,200
a generation before

1026
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:50,720
saint augustine another book every

1027
00:32:56,149 --> 00:32:52,960
christian should read it's very short

1028
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:56,159
it solves it explains what

1029
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:58,799
what was the problem and why christ had

1030
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:59,279
to come

1031
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,799
it's extraordinary book but the

1032
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,320
christian insight is

1033
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:04,000
there's a divine scapegoat people you

1034
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:06,000
can't go scapegoating white heterosexual

1035
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:06,480
men

1036
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:09,279
and solve your problem and you can't say

1037
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,399
well and let's purge

1038
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,080
everything the white heterosexual man

1039
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:13,760
did and then we'll solve our problems

1040
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:15,039
we're gonna get rid of capitalism we're

1041
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:16,320
gonna get rid of the nation state all

1042
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:17,120
those things those

1043
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:18,799
you know those those white heterosexual

1044
00:33:22,630 --> 00:33:20,559
men in europe produced

1045
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,640
three four hundred years ago we're gonna

1046
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,480
get rid of all those things and if we do

1047
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:25,919
then we're going to be fine

1048
00:33:29,029 --> 00:33:28,080
the christian says no you're not going

1049
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:29,039
to be fine

1050
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,039
because you're going to still feel guilt

1051
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,519
because you're turned away from god

1052
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,760
so my view is the churches are the only

1053
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,480
ones that can get us back on track

1054
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:40,000
but they're not because they're buying

1055
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,240
into social justice nonsense because

1056
00:33:46,070 --> 00:33:44,559
they have lost their their their uh

1057
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:46,080
theological backbone

1058
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,440
both the catholics and the protestants

1059
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:49,279
have lost their backbone on this one

1060
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:51,360
and they're seeding so much they're

1061
00:33:55,509 --> 00:33:52,320
ceding so much

1062
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,519
influence to the states i mean

1063
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,200
even if this was a let's say it was a

1064
00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:59,120
laudable goal that we need to correct

1065
00:34:03,029 --> 00:33:59,840
for past

1066
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:03,039
sins of racism and slavery let's do that

1067
00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:03,360
through

1068
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,679
efforts of people recognizing that this

1069
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:09,359
is something good to do

1070
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,800
not through man state mandated programs

1071
00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:15,200
thank you so i have a long section in

1072
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:15,919
the book

1073
00:34:20,790 --> 00:34:18,399
where i talk about justice and mercy and

1074
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,800
i say it is the responsibility

1075
00:34:23,829 --> 00:34:22,399
of the churches to teach the

1076
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:23,839
relationship between just

1077
00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:25,599
justice and mercy by which i mean

1078
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,200
there's the world of payment

1079
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,879
right so you know we got to pay for

1080
00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:30,800
things but but there's something more

1081
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:32,240
than mere payment and that's

1082
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,159
charity and mercy and the divine gift

1083
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:39,119
and what the what the churches should be

1084
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:40,079
teaching

1085
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:41,520
is that yes we all make our money and

1086
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:42,960
this is the world of payment and we do

1087
00:34:47,829 --> 00:34:44,720
what we can through charity

1088
00:34:49,589 --> 00:34:47,839
to uh to to make amends and to help

1089
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:49,599
people in face-to-face relations

1090
00:34:52,629 --> 00:34:51,520
and we learn this very delicate balance

1091
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,639
between um

1092
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:55,119
charity uh between justice and charity

1093
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:56,480
or justice and mercy

1094
00:35:00,710 --> 00:34:58,640
the welfare state is not about mercy

1095
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:00,720
it's about another kind of payment

1096
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,560
so that we lose this most profound

1097
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,400
insight that christianity offers

1098
00:35:07,990 --> 00:35:06,960
which is the world is broken the world

1099
00:35:09,670 --> 00:35:08,000
is you know

1100
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:09,680
the world of payment is never going to

1101
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:11,119
give us exactly what we need

1102
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,119
and that's why we have a divine gift

1103
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:14,880
that's why mercy is so important we've

1104
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:15,599
lost

1105
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:18,640
sight of mercy uh but mercy only works

1106
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,079
against the backdrop

1107
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,480
of of the world of justice so to speak

1108
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,760
and so you've got this

1109
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,680
very messed up situation let me just

1110
00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:27,280
explain one step further

1111
00:35:32,230 --> 00:35:30,240
think about borders right so you've got

1112
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:32,240
one group that says

1113
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,960
justice alone that is to say you know if

1114
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,960
you're a legal alien you go that's it

1115
00:35:40,069 --> 00:35:38,480
nobody comes across the borders this is

1116
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:40,079
the world of justice my nation your

1117
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,720
nation

1118
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:42,240
then there's the left that can only

1119
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,079
think in terms of mercy

1120
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:46,079
oh let's have no borders let's let's let

1121
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:47,760
everybody in doesn't matter

1122
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,040
and i think what the christian

1123
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:51,359
understands is that mercy is a

1124
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,880
supplement to justice but not a

1125
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,320
substitute for it

1126
00:35:58,150 --> 00:35:56,000
the world of payment exists and that's

1127
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,160
why charity is so important we recognize

1128
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,760
it against the backdrop

1129
00:36:03,030 --> 00:36:01,760
of the world of payment so in the old

1130
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:03,040
testament you had

1131
00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:04,960
in recognition that you know these land

1132
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:06,720
holders would get more and more

1133
00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:09,119
powerful and and debtors would become

1134
00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,560
more and more in debt and then every 50

1135
00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:12,160
years there was a jubilee where all this

1136
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:14,320
was forgiven you start over

1137
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:15,839
so there's an understanding that the

1138
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,960
world of payment let's call it

1139
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:18,880
capitalism is never enough

1140
00:36:22,150 --> 00:36:20,960
and that the churches and charity have

1141
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:22,160
to be merciful

1142
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:24,880
next to the world of payment and the

1143
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,240
problem that conservatives have had in

1144
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:27,920
my view in the last 30 40 years

1145
00:36:31,030 --> 00:36:29,440
is they focused a great deal on what i

1146
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:31,040
call the world of payment isn't

1147
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:31,760
capitalism

1148
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:34,079
great but they've completely lost sight

1149
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:35,520
of the need for

1150
00:36:41,829 --> 00:36:38,640
for mercy and charity to supplement

1151
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,839
the world of payment so the churches the

1152
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:43,440
churches can teach these things and it's

1153
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:45,040
only in these lived

1154
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:47,280
institutional settings that we can learn

1155
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,640
these things and if we don't have those

1156
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:50,400
institutional settings set up

1157
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:52,560
and working properly then what happens

1158
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,160
is you get these goofy goofy

1159
00:36:57,270 --> 00:36:56,000
movements on the left which say let's

1160
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,280
just have mercy

1161
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:59,599
this by the way is the god of love but

1162
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:01,359
not the god of justice the god of

1163
00:37:03,910 --> 00:37:03,040
judgment you you have to have both the

1164
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,920
god of judgment

1165
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:06,640
and the god of love and what's happened

1166
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:07,040
now

1167
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:08,720
is and this is especially true i think

1168
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,560
in the roman catholic church although we

1169
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,320
won't say methodism as well in the

1170
00:37:15,349 --> 00:37:14,560
protestant sect oh god is love god loves

1171
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:15,359
you well

1172
00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:17,040
god loves you and the world of judgment

1173
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:18,880
you got to hold both of them together

1174
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:21,040
but we want simple theology now we don't

1175
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,880
want we don't watch rich and complicated

1176
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,720
theology which makes us think

1177
00:37:27,910 --> 00:37:26,320
so i put this all in the doors of the

1178
00:37:31,829 --> 00:37:27,920
churches none of this is going to get

1179
00:37:34,470 --> 00:37:31,839
fixed until the churches

1180
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:34,480
get it right and and the good news again

1181
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,280
is at least

1182
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,280
the citizens who've actually mostly left

1183
00:37:40,390 --> 00:37:38,640
the church anyway

1184
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:40,400
at least the citizens know that the

1185
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:41,839
right category is transgression in

1186
00:37:44,310 --> 00:37:43,119
innocence they just have no guides to

1187
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,320
how to use it so you get this wacky

1188
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:46,400
lefty thing called identical things

1189
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:49,520
but for churches to get us out of this

1190
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:53,040
doesn't it require people to return

1191
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:55,760
to the churches because they've left in

1192
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:57,040
droves

1193
00:38:02,550 --> 00:38:00,480
and um and what are the alternatives to

1194
00:38:03,750 --> 00:38:02,560
relying on the churches to get us out of

1195
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:03,760
this because you know

1196
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:06,079
for me personally being raised a

1197
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,440
catholic and

1198
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:08,880
there's a lot of dogma there that you

1199
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:11,040
have to buy into not the least of which

1200
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:12,079
is that

1201
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:15,599
jesus is the son of god and you know i i

1202
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:16,480
love

1203
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,640
most of the teachings of our churches

1204
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,160
but there's certain things that

1205
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,240
i struggle with such as jesus being the

1206
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:24,400
son of god yet i feel compelled to have

1207
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:24,880
to

1208
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:30,880
so how do you reconcile those things

1209
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:33,119
well so um

1210
00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:34,560
so one of my favorite stories in the

1211
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:36,960
bible is the story of the prodigal son

1212
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:38,960
and the prodigal son is is with the

1213
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:41,119
father and then

1214
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:43,119
and and then leaves and says i'm gonna

1215
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:44,720
do this on my own and do this without

1216
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:45,359
the father

1217
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:47,599
and of course this is without god and

1218
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:49,119
the prodigal son

1219
00:38:52,470 --> 00:38:50,480
and the story is really beautiful this

1220
00:38:53,510 --> 00:38:52,480
the prodigal son goes off and of course

1221
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:53,520
he ends up

1222
00:39:00,230 --> 00:38:56,640
spending his inheritance so uh

1223
00:39:01,589 --> 00:39:00,240
using up using up the gifts that were

1224
00:39:03,910 --> 00:39:01,599
given to him but without

1225
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,920
without renewing those gifts he keeps

1226
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:05,760
going through all his treasures

1227
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:07,920
and he ends up it's beautiful statement

1228
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:10,240
he ends up

1229
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,320
not only feasting with pigs

1230
00:39:20,710 --> 00:39:17,359
he ends up feasting on the husks

1231
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,720
of pig corn now you know pig corn it's

1232
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,800
not particularly edible but now take

1233
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:24,079
away the the

1234
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:26,320
little kernels of corn and you've got

1235
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:27,920
the husks

1236
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:31,680
there's almost no nutrition and

1237
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:33,200
i think what the story is trying to say

1238
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,040
and then by the way then he goes home

1239
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,160
after he's feasted on the husks of corn

1240
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,240
what this means is

1241
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,640
the person who's left his father's house

1242
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,240
left the churches

1243
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,320
they're going to do everything they can

1244
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,240
and they're going to slowly

1245
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:51,280
use up the vast richness

1246
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,960
that the church gave them in terms of

1247
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:54,560
self understanding who they are who

1248
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,440
other people are

1249
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:57,839
who the world is and and slowly but

1250
00:40:00,950 --> 00:39:58,800
surely they're going to

1251
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,960
be coming become more and more depleted

1252
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:02,400
and more and more hungry

1253
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:04,160
but they're going to keep going they're

1254
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:05,520
first they're going to give up

1255
00:40:08,550 --> 00:40:06,720
hanging out with people then they can

1256
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:08,560
hang out with pigs and then when the pig

1257
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,839
corn's gone they're gonna eat on the eat

1258
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:11,200
the husks of corn this is an

1259
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,240
extraordinary

1260
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,800
observation about human nature that is

1261
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,040
to say we know we need to go home

1262
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:19,440
but we're not gonna do it until we are

1263
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,480
really really

1264
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,119
impoverished in our souls and i think

1265
00:40:27,109 --> 00:40:25,200
that's where we are right now i think

1266
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:27,119
to your question you know people have to

1267
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,640
go back to church i think what they have

1268
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:30,079
to see

1269
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:33,280
in identity politics is that

1270
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:35,839
their their their impulse is right about

1271
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:37,200
transgression innocence

1272
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:40,640
but the idea that you can solve this

1273
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:42,880
problem by scapegoating a particular

1274
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:45,040
group white heterosexual males

1275
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:48,160
is stupid it's ultimately incredibly

1276
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:49,920
counterproductive and here's why

1277
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:51,680
because once you purge the white

1278
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,200
heterosexual male

1279
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:55,440
and you know we we then have you know a

1280
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:57,359
world of people of color which of course

1281
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:59,040
is the code for everybody who's not the

1282
00:41:01,829 --> 00:41:00,560
white heterosexual male

1283
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:01,839
you don't think you're gonna have still

1284
00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:03,680
have problems you're gonna have the

1285
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:06,079
exact same problems that you had when

1286
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,240
the so-called white heterosexual male

1287
00:41:12,309 --> 00:41:10,640
was ruling society the problem is

1288
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:12,319
endemic to human life

1289
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,760
you're always going to have problems in

1290
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:15,440
human society

1291
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:17,119
you can't purge one group and get rid of

1292
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:18,800
them but this is the wager of identity

1293
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:19,440
politics

1294
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:22,160
if we can just get rid of this one group

1295
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:23,520
then everything's gonna be fine

1296
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:25,119
but then another group will have to be

1297
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:27,359
invented this is the pathology of it

1298
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:30,319
once you purge the scapegoat and you're

1299
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:31,440
gonna have to look around and find

1300
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:32,000
another group

1301
00:41:35,109 --> 00:41:33,440
my argument is the next one are going to

1302
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,119
be white women

1303
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:37,359
uh white heterosexual women and this

1304
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:38,560
karen meme who you

1305
00:41:42,470 --> 00:41:40,400
which you may have been paying attention

1306
00:41:45,109 --> 00:41:42,480
to is the beginning of this

1307
00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:45,119
but then the tragedy in my view is that

1308
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:46,240
the next group will be black

1309
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:48,240
heterosexual men

1310
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:51,280
and i remind you that that uh the the

1311
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:51,920
initial

1312
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:54,720
innocence category in america where this

1313
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,560
begins really is with the civil rights

1314
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,680
movement

1315
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:59,680
blacks the innocent victims of slavery

1316
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,880
and i let me be clear i

1317
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:02,480
i do believe that the racial wound in

1318
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:04,079
america is the great wound in america

1319
00:42:06,470 --> 00:42:05,359
make no mistake about that i think

1320
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:06,480
identity politics

1321
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:09,200
is a terrible way to address it but so

1322
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:10,319
so don't

1323
00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,440
please don't misunderstand what i'm

1324
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,680
saying but what happened was

1325
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:16,480
to use my language the black template of

1326
00:42:20,630 --> 00:42:17,599
innocence

1327
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,640
was appropriated first by women then by

1328
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:22,880
gays and now by transgender

1329
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,800
and so the the argument is as civil

1330
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,920
rights goes

1331
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,319
the civil rights went so too goes

1332
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:30,240
women's rights gay rights

1333
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:32,000
and transgender rights the problem is

1334
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:33,760
when you get that far out

1335
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,119
on the on the line to transgender rights

1336
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:40,319
what you see now is the claim that

1337
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:42,640
anyone who who doesn't believe that

1338
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,480
gender is fluid

1339
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,560
is heteronormative that is to say

1340
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:48,480
believes that male and female

1341
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:51,280
are an actual category well i have news

1342
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:52,160
for you

1343
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:55,440
most black americans know that without

1344
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:56,880
the families and the churches

1345
00:43:00,069 --> 00:42:58,160
they're not getting anywhere this has

1346
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:00,079
been the great understanding

1347
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:02,160
of blacks for a very since after the

1348
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,200
civil war

1349
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:04,960
family and churches are necessary to

1350
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:06,400
hold together their communities

1351
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:09,680
so the irony is is so extraordinary

1352
00:43:15,750 --> 00:43:11,599
the civil rights movement starts this

1353
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:17,109
and i think rightly so in black

1354
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:18,640
america's case i make no mistake about

1355
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:18,960
it

1356
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:21,200
but then then these other groups build

1357
00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:24,079
on it and my argument is that

1358
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:25,760
that all these other groups really do

1359
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:27,760
rely ultimately on the moral authority

1360
00:43:30,630 --> 00:43:29,040
of black america

1361
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,640
and so you ask the question where does

1362
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:32,960
this end i think one way it does end

1363
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,000
is if black america says no

1364
00:43:39,190 --> 00:43:37,920
uh women's issue is fine you can talk

1365
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:39,200
about women's issues great

1366
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:41,680
but it's not us you can't use our

1367
00:43:45,670 --> 00:43:42,640
struggle

1368
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:45,680
as a way of authorizing yours gay rights

1369
00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:47,040
transgender you can't because when you

1370
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,720
get to the transgender case

1371
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,880
you're making claims that that the

1372
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:52,319
category man and woman

1373
00:43:57,670 --> 00:43:55,680
is an artificial uh category that

1374
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:57,680
that causes harm black americans

1375
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:58,960
americans by large they don't even

1376
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,480
believe that

1377
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:02,319
and i think part of the reason why very

1378
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,680
briefly part of the reason why we had

1379
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,800
the riots

1380
00:44:08,069 --> 00:44:06,480
this last summer is every four years the

1381
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:08,079
democratic party has to

1382
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:10,160
reach out to blacks and say we have your

1383
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,200
back

1384
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,520
this country is so systematically racist

1385
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:14,800
we have your back we're gonna protect

1386
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:15,520
you

1387
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,920
we're not going to hear it quite so much

1388
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,839
but they had to do it this time because

1389
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,400
they're endorsing now the next move is

1390
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:28,079
going to be transgenderism that all the

1391
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,119
bathrooms in america

1392
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:31,280
there have to be three or more bathrooms

1393
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:32,880
in every public and prior

1394
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,079
every public venue in america

1395
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:38,319
uh and they're gonna their cat they're

1396
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:40,160
challenging the very idea

1397
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:42,240
that there's a natural category called

1398
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:43,359
man and woman

1399
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:46,480
well if you're black and you hear that

1400
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,760
you're gonna start wondering if the

1401
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:49,280
democratic party really does have your

1402
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,240
back

1403
00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:51,839
and so what the democratic party has to

1404
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,760
do is to do two things at once

1405
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:56,160
advance its cause to transgenderism at

1406
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:57,040
the moment

1407
00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,800
but also say to blacks no no don't worry

1408
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:00,800
we have your back america's systemically

1409
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:02,319
racist come to us

1410
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:04,720
it's really sick i think a lot of black

1411
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:05,520
americans

1412
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:07,119
are waking up to this and saying this is

1413
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,280
just crazy that's where you have to have

1414
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:11,040
some glimmer of optimism that

1415
00:45:17,829 --> 00:45:15,040
because at the end of the day bad ideas

1416
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:17,839
almost uniformly fail yeah and you're

1417
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,359
pointing out some of the conflicts and

1418
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,119
contradictions that are going to

1419
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,760
be arising here as they continue to find

1420
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:25,760
look for the next oppressed class and

1421
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:27,440
the next group of oppressors

1422
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:29,200
and at some point it just might fall

1423
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:30,640
upon itself

1424
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:31,920
yeah i think that's right and we're

1425
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:33,040
seeing this by the way also with

1426
00:45:35,829 --> 00:45:34,000
feminists so

1427
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,839
feminists are being attacked feminists

1428
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:37,680
saying gay men andrew sullivan has been

1429
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:38,720
very good on this

1430
00:45:42,390 --> 00:45:41,119
a gay conservative you know his argument

1431
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:42,400
is

1432
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,520
category and

1433
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,359
he's being attacked by the transgender

1434
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:49,599
groups and martinez

1435
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:50,960
you know an ardent feminist tennis

1436
00:45:55,990 --> 00:45:53,760
player she's being attacked jk rowling

1437
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:56,000
you know they they may be feminists or

1438
00:45:58,790 --> 00:45:57,119
they may be gay

1439
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,800
and they once were part of the innocent

1440
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,480
groups but you keep going out farther

1441
00:46:03,030 --> 00:46:01,359
and farther

1442
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:03,040
and the first innocent groups become

1443
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,880
groups of transgressors so the feminists

1444
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:06,640
who want to keep the category

1445
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,920
male and female just want to have

1446
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,839
equality between them they're now

1447
00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:11,200
attacked because they believe that

1448
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:11,599
there's

1449
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,880
a natural category called male and

1450
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:14,960
female i mean it does implode

1451
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:16,720
ultimately as you keep going out farther

1452
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:19,599
and farther it does implode

1453
00:46:25,990 --> 00:46:22,960
where are we relative to europe on this

1454
00:46:27,910 --> 00:46:26,000
hideous scale well so

1455
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,920
in europe i mentioned only in passing

1456
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:30,240
this passing

1457
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:33,760
this claim that i'll now elaborate so

1458
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:36,400
race is the issue that the left is using

1459
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:37,599
in america

1460
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:40,880
to advance the destruction of america

1461
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:44,319
um but in europe it's nations

1462
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:47,839
so there's a profound guilt about

1463
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:50,480
nations now i should say we notice that

1464
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:52,480
in eastern europe

1465
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:56,400
hungary poland it's much less so and and

1466
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:57,440
i think there's a really good

1467
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,880
theological reason so

1468
00:47:02,470 --> 00:47:01,119
you've got a very strong catholic church

1469
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:02,480
certainly in hungary

1470
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:05,839
and in poland and and roma eastern

1471
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,560
european catholics will say to these

1472
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:10,480
crazy western european catholics or

1473
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:11,520
europeans who've

1474
00:47:15,109 --> 00:47:14,000
lost their faith they'll say you're

1475
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:15,119
trying to make us

1476
00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:16,960
solve the problem of guilt by renouncing

1477
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:19,839
our nations but we know where guilt is

1478
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:22,720
is solved it's addressed in the church i

1479
00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,119
mean

1480
00:47:27,109 --> 00:47:25,680
there's guilt there's guilt before god

1481
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,119
god offers forgiveness

1482
00:47:30,150 --> 00:47:29,280
through through the church if you're

1483
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:30,160
catholic

1484
00:47:33,829 --> 00:47:32,319
and and that's how we have a tomorrow

1485
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:33,839
it's through forgiveness

1486
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:36,480
but the wager of of the the identity

1487
00:47:40,150 --> 00:47:37,760
politics left is

1488
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:40,160
we're going to play on your guilt and

1489
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,520
and there's no christian option

1490
00:47:44,470 --> 00:47:43,040
available for you so in western europe

1491
00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:44,480
where there's no christian option for

1492
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:45,280
you

1493
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:49,119
to renounce

1494
00:47:55,430 --> 00:47:52,800
all the so-called sins of your nation

1495
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,440
uh and your nation itself not just the

1496
00:48:00,069 --> 00:47:57,280
sins but all the good things too

1497
00:48:01,190 --> 00:48:00,079
and become part of the european union

1498
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,200
and so

1499
00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:02,800
in eastern europe they don't fall for

1500
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:04,720
that because they know guilt is

1501
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,920
something gets worked through by the

1502
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:06,960
church

1503
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:10,160
not by abandoning your nation and

1504
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:11,839
joining the eastern european or the

1505
00:48:16,470 --> 00:48:14,319
european union and would you add to that

1506
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,480
that the soviet union is fresh in their

1507
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:18,160
minds

1508
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:21,119
uh yeah i think that's true as well yeah

1509
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:21,680
thank you

1510
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:24,400
so they were dominated by by the soviet

1511
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,280
union

1512
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:27,359
and now they they know where this goes

1513
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:28,559
with the european union

1514
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,920
it's going to be domination from the

1515
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:31,680
west this time western europe as opposed

1516
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,640
to

1517
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,880
russia so that's there as well but i i

1518
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,800
want to emphasize the theological

1519
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:38,559
because i think that i think you have to

1520
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:40,640
get the theology right

1521
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,920
to be able to have to put on armor

1522
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:46,160
against this identity politics thing

1523
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,480
because if you the the argument is guilt

1524
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:50,079
and you if you don't have an a

1525
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:52,720
better way of understanding guilt then

1526
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:53,520
you're just gonna

1527
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,800
buckle but as far as

1528
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:58,319
you know you make the point that it's

1529
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:59,760
based on nations there as opposed to

1530
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,559
race

1531
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:02,480
but where are they as far as how far

1532
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:04,240
down the road are they as far as this

1533
00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:05,359
infiltrating

1534
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,040
their institute their mainstream media

1535
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,599
like we have their schools like we have

1536
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,680
it's everywhere they're corporations

1537
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:13,680
yeah i think we're a few years ahead but

1538
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,079
i have

1539
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:16,800
dear friends in france and and they tell

1540
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:17,440
me that

1541
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:20,480
france is just quickly succumbing

1542
00:49:24,150 --> 00:49:22,480
um yeah no it's especially probably the

1543
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:24,160
netherlands is probably the worst

1544
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,000
and what's interesting is it used to be

1545
00:49:29,109 --> 00:49:27,839
that everyone these other countries all

1546
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:29,119
look to america

1547
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:32,240
to be the beacon of hope in preserving

1548
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:32,559
of

1549
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:35,440
individual liberty and freedom would you

1550
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:36,720
say at this point

1551
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:38,480
they've already realized we can't look

1552
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:40,480
to america anymore

1553
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,920
um i think so i mean trump is a very

1554
00:49:48,230 --> 00:49:45,599
controversial figure but i think a lot

1555
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:48,240
of the nationalist movements in europe

1556
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,760
had they did look to trump

1557
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:53,520
let me put it more precisely they looked

1558
00:49:59,750 --> 00:49:56,480
to the election of 2016

1559
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,760
as a confirmation that this globalist

1560
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:00,800
movement

1561
00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:03,599
had stopped had been stopped by popular

1562
00:50:07,190 --> 00:50:04,640
will

1563
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:07,200
and and i think that's what helped

1564
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,960
catapult a number of the nationalist

1565
00:50:12,069 --> 00:50:10,400
parties in europe

1566
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:12,079
to prominence because there are a lot of

1567
00:50:15,510 --> 00:50:13,680
citizens who

1568
00:50:17,190 --> 00:50:15,520
have this dim sense that something is

1569
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:17,200
really not right

1570
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:19,359
by giving up all of their rights and

1571
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:20,800
giving up all their rights

1572
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,559
the european union in 2016 kind of

1573
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:26,000
coalesced the sense

1574
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:28,400
that we have to push back um and then

1575
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:30,400
the question is what happens with 2020

1576
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:31,599
you know with trump's

1577
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:33,440
trump's uh you know he's no longer

1578
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:34,640
president so

1579
00:50:38,549 --> 00:50:37,119
so what happens now that's i think a

1580
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:38,559
very interesting question my

1581
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:42,400
sense of this is it doesn't end i think

1582
00:50:45,109 --> 00:50:43,599
the left's view is

1583
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:45,119
well trump was a blip the nationalist

1584
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:47,280
movements were a blip and now we're

1585
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,319
now we are going to return to the

1586
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:50,480
globalist agenda that has no respect for

1587
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,319
individual rights whatsoever

1588
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,480
i don't think that's right i think that

1589
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,240
uh that

1590
00:51:01,190 --> 00:50:58,319
i'll be bold i think that the globalist

1591
00:51:03,670 --> 00:51:01,200
movement actually did end in 2016

1592
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:03,680
and and there are a lot of politicians

1593
00:51:06,630 --> 00:51:05,359
that are deeply invested in keeping it

1594
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:06,640
going and this is

1595
00:51:09,829 --> 00:51:08,000
it doesn't seem right at the moment but

1596
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,839
i think this is actually the last hurrah

1597
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:11,280
of it

1598
00:51:14,470 --> 00:51:12,640
because it cannot work because it

1599
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:14,480
produces and i said this to you earlier

1600
00:51:18,470 --> 00:51:16,640
it produces this configuration of

1601
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:18,480
management society and self-demand so

1602
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:19,839
identity politics

1603
00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,880
and globalism go together because

1604
00:51:26,309 --> 00:51:24,400
what you do if you're part of this

1605
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:26,319
configuration i come back to

1606
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,760
tocqueville's phrase being greater than

1607
00:51:31,109 --> 00:51:29,200
kings and less than men

1608
00:51:32,790 --> 00:51:31,119
you oscillate back and forth between

1609
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:32,800
posting on your selfie you're posting

1610
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:34,800
your selfies on your facebook page

1611
00:51:38,150 --> 00:51:36,079
and handing everything over to the

1612
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:38,160
global managers greater than kings and

1613
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,520
less than men

1614
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,520
and and the question is whether that's

1615
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:43,839
ultimately nourishing

1616
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:46,000
and so my question to all these people

1617
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:47,839
who defend that configuration of you

1618
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:49,440
know posting on facebook and

1619
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:50,720
handing everything up to the global

1620
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:52,400
managers because problems are too

1621
00:51:55,670 --> 00:51:53,520
complicated we

1622
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,680
have to have global coordination between

1623
00:51:58,309 --> 00:51:56,720
corporate and governments

1624
00:52:00,230 --> 00:51:58,319
government entities which of course is a

1625
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,240
catastrophe

1626
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:02,160
my question increasingly is well how's

1627
00:52:05,430 --> 00:52:03,520
that working for you

1628
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:05,440
because i think tocqueville saw it's not

1629
00:52:10,069 --> 00:52:07,119
working we have to

1630
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:10,079
it's basically manic depression that we

1631
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:11,200
we feel

1632
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:13,520
incredibly powerful when we post

1633
00:52:17,349 --> 00:52:15,119
pictures on our facebook page

1634
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:17,359
and then utterly impotent and that

1635
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:19,200
that's not sustainable that

1636
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:22,240
by polarity is not sustainable so i keep

1637
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:24,079
asking people how's that working for you

1638
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:26,000
now they're going to say well this feels

1639
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:26,880
incredibly

1640
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:29,359
high and you do feel high when you sense

1641
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:31,040
yourself to be sovereign man here's a

1642
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:32,160
selfie of me

1643
00:52:38,870 --> 00:52:35,599
but then the flip side of this is always

1644
00:52:41,270 --> 00:52:38,880
only a few hours away which is this deep

1645
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:41,280
depressive condition that you're utterly

1646
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:42,800
anonymous and can do nothing so my

1647
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:43,200
students

1648
00:52:47,109 --> 00:52:44,400
very briefly i think we're probably

1649
00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,119
running out of time but very briefly so

1650
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,520
you've gone to high school valedictorian

1651
00:52:52,630 --> 00:52:51,359
speeches you've heard them in college

1652
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:52,640
valedictorians

1653
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:56,000
and these young kids 18 or 22 get up on

1654
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,680
the podium and say we are going to

1655
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:59,520
change the world everything's going to

1656
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:01,280
be new because of us

1657
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,960
and then the pandemic comes and there's

1658
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:04,319
not a murmur

1659
00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:07,119
that there's not one bit of pushback

1660
00:53:09,190 --> 00:53:08,480
between these kids are going to change

1661
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,200
the world

1662
00:53:12,230 --> 00:53:10,880
and i say to them don't you see what

1663
00:53:14,549 --> 00:53:12,240
what you're confirming here

1664
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:14,559
that you are oscillating back and forth

1665
00:53:19,109 --> 00:53:16,240
between feeling

1666
00:53:20,150 --> 00:53:19,119
like nothing can stop you and feeling

1667
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,160
utterly impotent

1668
00:53:23,430 --> 00:53:22,079
and you can't build a world on that

1669
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:23,440
configuration

1670
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:25,040
we have to find something that's not

1671
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:27,040
quite sovereign self

1672
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:29,040
and we have to and it's not quite

1673
00:53:32,630 --> 00:53:30,400
complete deference

1674
00:53:33,990 --> 00:53:32,640
to you know the global climate changes

1675
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:34,000
we're going to say we have to have

1676
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,760
global coordination between corporate

1677
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:37,520
government corporations and government

1678
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:41,280
to solve our problem this is the madness

1679
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:42,640
of the current moment and

1680
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:44,880
tocqueville saw what the answer was we

1681
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:46,640
have to build a world in face-to-face

1682
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:48,400
relations so that we don't produce this

1683
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,079
sovereign selfie man

1684
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:52,640
and so that we don't defer to the global

1685
00:53:54,630 --> 00:53:54,000
managers and feel ourselves to be

1686
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:54,640
impotent

1687
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,400
yeah well and all that makes a lot of

1688
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:58,720
sense in the context of covet because

1689
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:00,400
all these things that you're raising

1690
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:03,760
that are concerns were just multiplied

1691
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,920
by code absolutely and hence the reason

1692
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:07,520
why we need to get past

1693
00:54:12,870 --> 00:54:10,559
covid as soon as possible in my mantra

1694
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:12,880
that logical people seem to agree with

1695
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:15,359
and illogical people don't is that

1696
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,760
once that vaccine is available to all

1697
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:19,599
which is very soon

1698
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,720
this is over you now have the personal

1699
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,079
choice to protect yourself

1700
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:26,400
or not so i'm no longer concerned about

1701
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,680
affecting my neighbor

1702
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,200
because my neighbor had the choice to

1703
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:30,880
get the vaccine that's when this thing

1704
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:31,520
should end

1705
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,720
but man do i get pushed back from people

1706
00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:36,240
on the left against oh no

1707
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:38,319
you know this is going to take much

1708
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,000
longer and we need everybody to take the

1709
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,520
vaccine i'm like no once you've got the

1710
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:43,440
individual choice to take it or not take

1711
00:54:46,950 --> 00:54:43,839
it

1712
00:54:48,470 --> 00:54:46,960
end but

1713
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:48,480
we need more people to subscribe to that

1714
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,839
because right now that's the losing

1715
00:54:53,910 --> 00:54:51,119
argument it appears

1716
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:53,920
yeah no i it's a big concern i i see

1717
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:54,640
this i mean

1718
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:57,440
i hate to be paranoid about this but i

1719
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:57,920
did

1720
00:55:02,230 --> 00:55:00,400
i was in morocco iraq for two years and

1721
00:55:04,150 --> 00:55:02,240
my view of the human condition is

1722
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:04,160
was much darkened as a consequence of it

1723
00:55:08,069 --> 00:55:05,599
i i don't want to say this

1724
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,079
this is a pretext but i do worry that

1725
00:55:12,549 --> 00:55:10,000
this just like 911

1726
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,559
was uh was a pretext to build the

1727
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:14,640
national security state so i too i think

1728
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:15,680
this will be

1729
00:55:18,549 --> 00:55:17,200
will be twisted for very nefarious

1730
00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:18,559
purposes and we need to push back

1731
00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:19,280
against it

1732
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:21,200
thank you again to our guest joshua

1733
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,040
mitchell you can check out his book on

1734
00:55:26,789 --> 00:55:25,200
amazon american awakening identity

1735
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:26,799
politics and other afflictions of

1736
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,880
our time thank you to our producer

1737
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:30,240
michael parker we'll be back

1738
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:32,000
soon with another episode of the hidden

1739
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:39,670
thank you for listening to the hidden

1740
00:55:45,270 --> 00:55:41,760
truth show with jim breslow

1741
00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:45,280
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

1742
00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:47,440
follow us on facebook twitter and

1743
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:48,319
instagram

1744
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:51,200
at hidden truth show join us again next

1745
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,520
week